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Rank: Frosh
Joined: 10/16/2011 Posts: 5
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Narrowed my choices down to two after deliberating on all options, however I am still unsure of what route to take and the deadline is not moving any further away. I am not 100% sure that I want to become a CA, however I am interested in both accounting and finance and having the CA designation as an option is always nice. Waterloo's benefits for people that want a designation seem to be superior to Schulich's. I like the co-op available at Waterloo, but is it necessary? If I go to Schulich, will the same opportunities for employment be there? Can anyone give some insight into internships or jobs that they received through Schulich? I am a fan of Schulich's reputation, but I just don't know what to do and would appreciate some input. Thanks Schulich BBA Class of 2016
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 5/27/2011 Posts: 567
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mark94 wrote:Narrowed my choices down to two after deliberating on all options, however I am still unsure of what route to take and the deadline is not moving any further away. I am not 100% sure that I want to become a CA, however I am interested in both accounting and finance and having the CA designation as an option is always nice. Waterloo's benefits for people that want a designation seem to be superior to Schulich's. I like the co-op available at Waterloo, but is it necessary? If I go to Schulich, will the same opportunities for employment be there? Can anyone give some insight into internships or jobs that they received through Schulich? I am a fan of Schulich's reputation, but I just don't know what to do and would appreciate some input. Thanks Co-op means you get to work during the busy season, which is a FAR better experience than working during the summer. Waterloo gets more recruiting for accounting jobs and you can get a Masters in 5 years. There's the option to take a lot of finance courses too with your accounting courses at Waterloo, so I would recommend that. My personal recommendation is Waterloo. Schulich is much cheaper though (although co-op earnings can help balance things a little).
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Rank: Valedictorian  Joined: 12/24/2010 Posts: 643
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AFM-PA if you're really keen on getting your CA or have a personal affection for the school. Schulich if you want to do anything else. Mind you that Schulich is also quite good for accounting.
I don't think AFM offers co-op first year summer so after first year you're essentially on the same page was the Schulich people. After that point, I believe Schulich has access to some sort of co-op, but I'd still say that Waterloo's co-op placement is vastly superior.
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 3/22/2011 Posts: 521
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I was 100% set on CA when I applied and I chose Schulich over Waterloo without much hesitation. Schulich places enough people into accounting firms (BIG 4 in particular) both for full time and internships (summer internships with BIG 4 start in the summer after year 2). On top of excellent CA preparation, I love that Schulich teaches the broad, management perspective to business. Because I don't want to stay in public accounting forever, I found this very useful for my future career. I also think Schulich's location is ideal for a business School in Canada. Outstanding reputation, combined with low tuition costs completely sealed the deal for me. I know that I packed a lot of reasons into this short paragraph. If you have any questions about any of them, feel free to send me a PM. :) PM if you have any questions with regards to school, university, jobs, etc. I am glad to help out and share what I know. Dmitry Kutsyy iBBA ’15 (Candidate), Dean’s Honour List | Schulich School of Business Ambassador | Schulich School of Business Research Assistant Lead | Schulich School of Business Mentor | Schulich Protege Program Sales Consultant | Hugo Boss LinkedIn
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 5/27/2011 Posts: 567
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Since MINTOK gave a harder sell than I did, I'll add onto my post:
Waterloo AFM takes out most of the fluff (the softer courses where you really don't learn anything important). They want you to get that experience from group projects in class, executive/committee positions within clubs, and co-op work experience. There are also a number of new case integrative courses where everything you have learned (accounting, finance, the math and statistics related to finance, and business/marketing/HR concepts briefly covered) is applied in a realistic situation to what you could face as a co-op student or as a recent graduate. You get to work in teams and it's a tremendous opportunity to gain broad management perspective. The MAcc program at Waterloo gives you a chance to get some extra tax courses (huge advantage if you want to move from audit to tax), as well as specialize in audit or tax and take some advanced electives such as forensic accounting or business valuation (plus you get a masters). The courses are all case-based or at least have case-exams. These prepare you very well for the UFE (students from other schools have to go to the School of Accountancy in order to learn how to do these accounting case-based exams) and are considered to be a superior way of learning (see Ivey, Harvard, and the training programs of many top companies). There are lots of finance courses and you can use some of your electives to essentially double specialize in both accounting and finance (no extra courses or fees) and work towards both your CA and CFA (or CMA and CFA) designation (same thing works with public/managerial accounting and CA/CMA designations). There's a ton of ways to get involved within the program and as I said lots of recruiting and networking opportunities. The tuition is more expensive but with scholarships and co-op earnings it's totally manageable (plus cheaper to live in Waterloo than Toronto) and I personally think it's a nicer area than York/Schulich area. The co-op program gives you a tremendous opportunity to get work experience during the busy season at top employers- this is the best way to learn all about the business and accounting fields and how managing works. It's a pretty smooth transition from public accounting to industry and you can easily graduate Waterloo with at least 16 months of work experience, in a higher position than your friends at other schools, with a Masters, without writing the CKE and SOA, and it will likely only take you 30 months to get your work experience than the 36 or at other non co-op schools.
:) Ask if you have any questions.
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Rank: Frosh
Joined: 10/16/2011 Posts: 5
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Thanks a lot for the input from both of you. My big issues with AFM are that it is a little less prestigious and significantly more costly, however I do see the multiple benefits it holds for possible designation seekers. I'm leaning toward Schulich at the moment, but I'm still not 100% sure. Also, is it true that since I'm deciding late at Schulich my courses will basically be whatever time slots are left for the required ones? Schulich BBA Class of 2016
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Rank: Senior Student  Joined: 12/4/2011 Posts: 135
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mark94 wrote:is it true that since I'm deciding late at Schulich my courses will basically be whatever time slots are left for the required ones? I'm afraid so.Last week I went to my EA and guess what?Some of the good sections were full so I had to take a 8:30 section.You might have take more morning classes first year since all the good ones are taken.But this shouldn't influence your decision right? You can't go wrong with any of the two. If you decide to go to Schulich then I'll see in September. I just want to go to Schulich But I can't believe I didn't apply for Ivey AEO...
In the end: Schulich BBA 2016
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 5/27/2011 Posts: 567
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mark94 wrote:Thanks a lot for the input from both of you. My big issues with AFM are that it is a little less prestigious and significantly more costly, however I do see the multiple benefits it holds for possible designation seekers. I'm leaning toward Schulich at the moment, but I'm still not 100% sure. Also, is it true that since I'm deciding late at Schulich my courses will basically be whatever time slots are left for the required ones? Waterloo as a school is quite prestigious. The AFM program is very well-known by employers and many firms and companies love recruiting from Waterloo for accounting (and other) positions. Waterloo was given an A+ in reputation (same as McGill) in that recent report by whatever magazine that was. Also, remember that you will have co-op earnings (as well as scholarships) to help balance out your tuition. On my current projections, I will graduate with zero debt (job earnings, scholarships and investments).
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 3/22/2011 Posts: 521
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^With lower tuition at York, summer internship earnings and the ability to hold a great part time job in Toronto, I am able to not only graduate without any debt, but live fully on my own while in school and lead a very comfortable lifestyle (my own downtown apartment, Hugo Boss suits, eating out all the time and going out quite often). ;) PM if you have any questions with regards to school, university, jobs, etc. I am glad to help out and share what I know. Dmitry Kutsyy iBBA ’15 (Candidate), Dean’s Honour List | Schulich School of Business Ambassador | Schulich School of Business Research Assistant Lead | Schulich School of Business Mentor | Schulich Protege Program Sales Consultant | Hugo Boss LinkedIn
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 5/27/2011 Posts: 567
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MINTOK wrote:^With lower tuition at York, summer internship earnings and the ability to hold a great part time job in Toronto, I am able to not only graduate without any debt, but live fully on my own while in school and lead a very comfortable lifestyle (my own downtown apartment, Hugo Boss suits, eating out all the time and going out quite often). ;) Waterloo has a much lower cost of living. It allows you to build more independence as you are far away from home (for most people) instead of in the same city. In addition, you don't have to worry about muggings or shootings nor do you have to worry about smog. There is a greater amount of farm-fresh food that supports those that feed cities and is much healthier for you to eat. And if there were to ever be a terrorist attack on Canada, you don't have to worry as much because Toronto would obviously be the most likely target :P Oh, and we're closer to the nicer beaches.
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Rank: Student Body President  Joined: 12/19/2010 Posts: 1,595
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To the argument above^ Facts: Waterloo Costs: - Total Tuition 10 academic terms: 75K - Renting Fee 10 terms: 20K give or take Schulich Costs: - Total Tuition: 30K Waterloo earnings: - Coop: approximately 60K Schulich Earnings: - 3rd year Internship: 10K - Assuming Full-Time right after undergrad, graduating 16 months ahead of UW AFM: Approximately 60K You'll be buying more food at UW, but you'll probably be going out more in Toronto for more expensive stuff. Transit is free at UW. The winner is clearly Schulich by a landslide. A difference of 60-80K at the end. That ain't chump-change.
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 5/27/2011 Posts: 567
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^ Your argument there has a lot of assumptions in it. Costs will vary with almost every student. The only way to properly do it would be to find the average "normal" costs and revenues for every student at both schools, then to compare.
And if you are able to get your CA designation faster than you get your CA at Schulich, then you would have x number of months where you earn much more. And as a co-op student you would graduate with a higher position than you likely would at Schulich, which means more money during that time period. And at some firms they will pay you overtime for the busy season, whereas you won't be likely to get much overtime during the summer at Schulich.
Oh, and why would you eat more food at Waterloo?
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Rank: Student Body President  Joined: 12/19/2010 Posts: 1,595
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There are no arguments on the tuition. Renting is on average. You have to buy all your food at UW. You can eat food at home in Toronto - but there are a lot more opportunities to eat out and and expensively. I didn't mean eating more food, I meant buying more food. I don't see why UW is faster than Schulich. By the time you graduate from AFM, with your Macc, you'd have 16 months of experience and a Schulich grad would have 20 months. The 2 exams before the UFE don't take 4 months so Schulich students would be ahead. You're right on the busy season stuff though, AFM students would have had 3 busy seasons to 1.
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Rank: Valedictorian
Joined: 5/27/2011 Posts: 567
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immaculatedx wrote:There are no arguments on the tuition. Renting is on average. You have to buy all your food at UW. You can eat food at home in Toronto - but there are a lot more opportunities to eat out and and expensively. I didn't mean eating more food, I meant buying more food.
I don't see why UW is faster than Schulich. By the time you graduate from AFM, with your Macc, you'd have 16 months of experience and a Schulich grad would have 20 months. The 2 exams before the UFE don't take 4 months so Schulich students would be ahead.
You're right on the busy season stuff though, AFM students would have had 3 busy seasons to 1. Well your assumption is that the person would be living in Toronto (in an area where commuting is reasonable and that living on one's own is not a major concern). You're assuming that you can eat at home if the person goes to Schulich. AFM students (since they are in a co-op program) will be able to complete their experience requirements likely in 30 months (no more than 32 in all likelihood- assuming traditional CATO jobs) while Schulich students would be closer to 36 (between 34 and 38 likely). There's a lot of little factors that determine how many months it is but those are the averages. Also, the School of Accountancy is basically one month, which means you aren't working then. And remember too that the MAcc usually finishes up by the beginning of August. Oh and at Schulich you will only get half of your hours counted during your internship. This argument also assumes that the Schulich student is able to fit their required credits into the 4 year program, and that they are prepared to write the CKE, SOA and UFE within a few months of graduating.
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